proofs that there is a God.

heres a forum convo im having about proofs that there is a God.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lao tzu Greetings, gugen, I don't believe in gods in general, so naturally I don't believe in your god in particular. Humans have a long history of looking for rhyme and reason in the world around them, and, failing to find explanation, they often choose to invoke causes they cannot understand by recreating them in human shape. Even when we do not dress them in our own physical form, though that's common enough, we grant them all of the other aspects of humanity. We give them a personality, a consciousness, control of their environment, and a desire to be respected. We make them in our own image. We create them with desires that we can fulfill in exchange for hope that our own desires can likewise be met. I find this process understandable, but ultimately unproductive. Over the past few thousand years, humans have slowly learned to take control of most of the aspects of divinity we once assigned to our gods. We control the lightning today. We foretell the hurricanes. We measure the earthquakes and build our structures with these stresses in mind. Our need to pray for relief from these natural disasters has consequently waned. Over the past few hundred years, humans have slowly learned to discover for ourselves, in reliable fashion, facts beyond our natural ability to discover them. From the depths of the living cell to the galactic clusters at the furthest extent of the universe, we have learned to see what could not be seen before. Our need for "revelation" as an avenue to truth has consequently abated. Islam, like the Abrahamic faiths that preceded it and followed it, is today an anachronism. The universe as we humans perceived it thousands of years ago is today as quaint as our perception of our place within it once was. We are growing up, and putting away the childish self-centeredness that sees the universe as nothing more than a place created for us. As ever, Jesse

basically you are saying we dont need a God, its an illogical and old-fashioned idea which we use to explain the existence of the world, and now in the 21st century we are more advanced and civilised and thus need to do away with this "childish" belief.


okay well firstly, the theist always has more proof than an atheist. the atheist (which is almost a religious belief system - they believe in something that cannot be proven) cannot prove there is not a God. However we, Muslims, can.

We can do it through the following logic:

1.There had to be a source for all the matter in the Big Bang = God
(im sure with your knowledge you know the other arguments too )
2.It makes sense that God contact us as he would have a reason for creating us.(tenable on its own but stands well when linked to the next few points)
3.If he contacted us, it would make sense to tell us what he requires off us.
4.This contact logically would be easiest if he sent them a prophet from amongst human beings.
5.These human Prophets would then have an essentially matching set of teachings at the basic level. (eg Moses-Jesus-Muhammad all preach monotheism.) As they are all from the same source=God.
6.Now these Prophets would not speak of their own...as no-one would believe them...they need authority of "God". So they have books sent down to them, which also deals with the problem of following the teachings of God once the prophet passes away-as now they have a lasting copy of God's teachings.
7.God gives these Prophets signs that would impress the people they were aimed at: eg Jesus PBUHand the healings, raising from dead etc, Muhammad PBUH came at a time sufficiently advanced enough for God to end all revelations to mankind...(eg the Torah and NT corrupted and the Qur'an isn't -also people more advanced in lots of other ways) and he came at a time when,people were getting into literature much more, and from 1400 years ago, until the end of time - ...the biggest miracle of the Prophet Muhammad, given to him by God, is the Qur'an.
8. so now we have the Qur'an as the proof of God's existence, like the people who witnessed Jesus healing lepers etc, the modern day person has to read the Qur'an and think...is this book similar to any other book i have ever read?
does it sound like its been written by an illierate and uneducated man in a desert 1400 years ago? (scientifically sound too - but thats another way to prove the existence of God)
9.the next proof is the messengership of Muhammad, his life and his motives. simple put, either Muhammad PBUH was a prophet of God, or he wasn't.
Now lets look at his motives if he wasnt a Prophet of God. Muhammad was offered enormous wealth, but he refused. He was offered kingship of Makkah but he refused. He used to darn his own clothes, and him and his family used to survive on many occasions on only water and dates. And he continued to live very very simply all his life, even towards the end, when wealth was pouring into the hands of the Muslims. He had only 2 pieces of cloth, and at the time of his death, he had pawned off his armour to someone in order to live. This is the man that could ask any Muslim to give him wealth and the Muslim would give him all his wealth - but he never did. He used to stand for hours upon hours in prayer in the middle of the night, sacrificing his own sleep, crying to his Lord for forgiveness of the Muslims, for their success in this world and the next and thanking God for all that he had given him, he used to stand so much so much that his feet used to swell up. The question is: was this man sincere or not? The answer, as even Non-Muslims have to conclude is that he most definitely was.
now the next challenge: to prove he really was from God:
firstly his message matched the other previous "selfless" and "sincere" and "monotheistic" prophets that came before him - so thats criteria 1 met.
Next, the only other option we have to go down...is that he was (naoodobillah) insane or deluded. This allegation is dealt with extensively in the Qur'an and refuted, God does deal with this as he knows that this is the only option left for people to reject him.
Also we have to look at his life...was this man really acting insane? The enemies of him at the time also had to conclude that he wasn't insane, he didn't have fits, he didn't speak or act in a strange manner and his words (if they were not Gods -the Qur'an in other words) were not something even a highly intelligent and gifted poet/orator/linguist of the time could have made up, never mind an insane person. He used to be the best in character in Makkah and his fame for this was such that he was known as "the trustworthy". -his judgement was respected (many authentic stories that i wont mention here ) - why respect a madmans judgement?
Also we look at this guys achievements: he managed something that no-one had ever managed in history: uniting the arab tribes, and doing this in only 23 years.He must have been an incredible diplomat and an incredible orator -insane...doesnt add up?
What else did he do? He lay the seeds for one of the biggest empires ever seen on earth - changing those backward sheep-herders into scholars, doctors and teachers...and insane deluded man did this?
He had the following of 100,000s, this is impossible for a madman to have accomplished. Think about it: this is the most authentically reported on person ever. His entire life, from his sayings to family life to travelling to even going to the toilet, all was recorded. From here we know that if there was any even HINT of Insanity - he would have been found out straight away...and he would never have got this incredibly large following. (and remember the arabs were a tribal society - notoriously hard to unite).
Also for him to have written a book like the Qur'an, his own character and ideas, as any authors does, must be in the Qur'an. As we know...he was an incredibly humble person...but the Qur'an is an extremely authoritive book as befits something from God- why the mismatch if he wrote it?
Also If he wrote the Qur'an, he must have been secretly studying (which with the scrutiny he was constantly under - was impossible) modern scientific facts...using a non-existent microscope and a non-existent powerful telescope, and also we have to take the advanced scientific facts to be known to him as a given right?
He must also have been a psychologist, the like of which has never been seen since and before him,to have written a book like the Qur'an, which addresses all the thoughts of a questioning reader, giving them powerful arguments to swallow. - again ...this guy insane...deluded you say?
So we have to conclude that he wasnt insane, wasnt lying and was sincere. Therefore there remains only one option: He was the Messenger of God!

conclusion:
so basically you have many ways to prove God:
the first cause, intelligent design etc.
then you have the fact that we have a logically believable (they all match) tradition of messengers of God coming to us through history.
The life of Muhammad is another fantastic example of there being a God and him communicating to mankind.
Also the Qur'an is the miracle given to us by God, as proof that he exists.(and thats another topic on its own )

thanks for the replies btw

religion in a nutshell

I was thinking about religion and belief - and how its such as vast subject...how many hundreds of thousands of books written on the topic...then i thought - actually religion is very simple, and I came up with the 2 key questions which sum up what its all about:
1) Is there a God?
2) (If yes to the first one) Did God communicate to us through the Quran?

Thats it! because simply, if the two answers are yes for a person, then he would be foolish to not become a Muslim...as he has accepted the Quran...so he knows the benefits of Islam and also the punishment in store for him if he then rejects Islam after accepting that the Qur'an is the word of God.

Now the second question doesn't have to have "through the Quran" in...it could be any other religious book such as the Torah, the Bible or the Bagavad Gita. Now we approach the next hurdle in the search for truth....Which religion is correct...if not all being either right or wrong?

1) Are religions wrong?
2)Are all religions correct?
3) Which religion is correct?

1
Okay, I think ill start with this. Here we are basically stating:
"all religions are wrong"
Right, that doesn't really answer the purpose of life, rather it avoids answering it. But that is not reason alone to dismiss this stance. The next is, that this argument is just a conclusion- it needs support, such as proving why all religions are in fact wrong. Also how then can we for example dismiss the scientific facts in the Quran or other miraculous events? Also refer to an answer to atheism in my older posts.

2
Okay, again this is a huge thinking flaw, many religions contradict in their teachings, for example you have Muslims saying Jesus was only a messenger of God, while Christians claim he was the son of God - how can both possibly be right?
And for a religion to be from God, it ALL has to be 100% correct, so the next argument that in fact all religions teach good things therefore are all right, is also easily dissmissable as even if a religion has good teachings, if its beliefs are wrong, then there is no point trying to reach God through the path which is clearly wrong, rather we should search for a path which is authentically from God and which also teaches good.

3
Here we are entering into comparative religion, and I wont go into this as theres plenty of sources out there already:
www.beconvinced.com
www.muslim-responses.com
www.answering-christianity.com
and ofcourse theres a "christianity" part to my second post, which rather pales in contrasts to the forementioned sites ;).

But basically heres what we have to look at:
Is the religion's teachings sensible and logical and in harmony with what science tells us?
Are the teachings actually what they were when they were first revealed from God, so in other words - ARE THEY AUTHENTIC? ARE THEY UNCORRUPTED?ARE THEY WHAT GOD SAID OR JUST A MAN?

To conclude, religion is really quite easy to understand once we know what questions we are trying to answer. I hope this doesnt sound like the ramblings of a madman ;)

Coming next---
Religions [or ways of life :) ] shouldn't just be about BLIND faith. because then the faith is weak as it doesnt rest on anything firm.
Islam says religion should be about faith which rests on science, logic, rationale and common sense.

InshAllah (God willing) the next post in going to discuss the dozens of amazing scientific facts in the Quran - which have only been discovered recently - but were in the Quran 1400 years ago!

islam- not really a religion

Most people think Islam is a religion. they are right in a sense. however the word "religion" doesnt really do justice to Islam.
theres a remarkably fluid word in arabic - "deen" - this basically means "way of life". Now thats what Islam really is all about.
Islam teaches basically that the purpose for our creation was only to : worship God. (i have not created Jinn and mankind except but to worship me 51:56) - now if that is the main aim of our life...then surely everything, yes EVERYTHING should then therefore be geared towards this worship. Islam has a say in everything we do in our life. here ill give a few examples:
okay so lets start right at the start of the day:

you wake up and immediately say "praise be to Allah who gives us life after he has caused us to die and to him is the return." Now after this you get up, put your slippers on (right foot first) and go to the toilet (left foot first). here you read "oh Allah I seek protection in you from the male and female unclean spirits." - then you go to brush your teeth. ( the Prophet (PBUH)( whos example muslims have to follow) used to brush 5 times a day, sometimes even more, and he strongly encouraged brushing of our teeth! and this is 1400 years ago, before everyone knew about the dangers of unclean teeth too. and now we find out we should brush before bed and after we wake up...what did the prophet used to do? exactly that!)

now you want to answer the call of nature...does islam have teachings for that too? - yes it does!
you answer the call of nature...then you use your left hand (islam pays high emphasis on keeping seperate the hand with which you touch dirty things and the hand you use for other things like eating) to clean youself, using water(as islam teaches). Now why water...you may ask...well the answer is simply that if you had some dog-poo on a table..would you use a tissue to clean it off or would you use water...? why use tissues for our own bodies...and be less clean?

okay so now your all spruced up...you want to do wudu (ritual cleansing-which is required before you can do ritual prayer or read the Quran ) -so you start....rinse your mouth and nose out 3 times, wash entire face 3 times, wash arms upto elbows 3 times, wipe hair and wash ears, then wash feet - you now are clean im sure you'll agree with me.
okay now you realise its a friday - Islam teaches that a person should bathe or shower atleast once a week-and especially on a friday - so you go into shower and have a shower. ( it is said that cleanliness is half of faith - in islam)

Ill stop there(dont want to bore people...i think ive proven that islam is infact a way of life...There are many more teachings about being in the toilet that i havent mentioned...let alone the 100,000 of other authentic teachings about other activities(eating, sleeping, business, politics etc etc)...not like other religions where its just hearsay with anonymous authors.

by the way, you dont HAVE to do this as a muslim, the majority of the things i mnetioned are recommended but not compulsory...so if a muslim decided to ditch brushing their teeth for a week - they are still muslim. :) the whole concept is that - you have a purpose to your life - worshipping God - and you try and remember and worship him in every single act of yours.

(visit www.searchtruth.com-and look at hadith section and see if there some topic you cant find addressed or a principle to apply to the topic in question- and look at the sheer number of authentic sayings of Muhammad(PBUH))

hey that might be an other topic to write about...what is "authentic" and what is the "SCIENCE" of hadith ( the sayings or actions of the Prophet Muhammad(PBUH)) and how they are verified to be authentic...and ofcourse a comparison to other religious documents which were much more volatile in their formative years and dubious in their origins.

Dawah on MSN

increasingly people are spending a lot of their time online and on MSN. this is an excellent opportunity to tell people about islam, because naturally in ther own homes people feel much more comfortable and online they are much more open too. face to face there are sometimes some barriers.
so what we have started is to do dawah online (telling people about islam), not converting them, as that would be trying sumthing only Allah can do - we cannot convert even 1 person - only Allah can guide them. all we are doing is giving them the information for them to make that decision for themselves.
so what i propose us muslims online do is add each other ( that way we have collectively more knowledge and poeple to give dawah to) and then after reading this brief (badly written in some parts) guide - go ahead and give dawah.
People involved:


Umair --- umair_tk@hotmail.com
Ibrahim --- ibrahim_thebest123@hotmail.com
Ammar--- ammar_tg@hotmail.com
Danyal--- m_danyal@hotmail.co.uk
Akib
Zeeshan---
Adam
Ashraf
wasif wasif_syed_44@hotmail.com
(add us plz)

Why we r doing it:
as its Fard on us to convey message of Islam
as Biggest sunnah of Messenger (saw)
as it says so in the quran: 12:108
as its our obligation to the non muslims we meet - so that they cant say to us on the say of resurrection
that we didnt tell them about Islam...and then we'll be in a tight spot

WHo we r doing it for:
We are doing it for Allah alone, and if we do it for ANY other reason then we aint doing it for Allah
so we have to keep a tabs on our intention all the time.

What are we doing?
calling to the worship of the creator ( ALllah) alone and without partners rather than the worhship
of the creation.
calling to worship Allah in the way he has said in the Quran and to do it according to the sunnah
of the Prophet (saw)

so basically...the kalimah/shahadah - no God worthy of
being worshipped except Allah, and Muhammad (saw) is his messenger.

_________________________________________________________________________________________
| 11 key things for dawah |
| |
| 1) doing it only for Allah |
| 2) knowing what we r calling to: eg knowing basics about Islam - certain knowledge |
| 3) call to EVERYONE - all have that right to know the truth. |
| 4) sincerity - practise what you preach - absolutely vital |
| 5) know intellectual background, and background of listeners- |
| relationship should be like a doctor to a patient. |
| 6) know your and their psychology -good first impression- plant a seed about islam |
| never get emotive, and argumentative, keep convo postive (lots of LOLs and ROFLs :)|
| 7) oppose falsehood and aggression in any form - justice is huhe concept in islam |
| 8) dont get dragged into proving bible wrong-if it happens it happens |
| but always remember keep the convo about islam at all times. |
| 9) offer better alternative - islam and social ills, purpose of life etc |
|10) be patient- remember ppl dont change overnight - many take years |
| to become a muslim, its important that we plant that seed and then nurture it |
|11) be ready to accept criticism, and be adaptable, and this comes with experience - |
| - so gain some and do dawah all the time u r online! |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
coming soon!
Quran-
what it is
who its for
what it talks about
its compilation-comparison with bible
science in the quran


Islam- a way of life
--Islam and Social problems
-drugs, smoking etc
-no sex before marriage
-islamic economics
-islamic laws
etc

--islam and everyday life
-islam and toiletry
-eating
-sleeping
-talking
-studying
etc





things to say to certain types of people: ( for the argumentative among us ;) )

------------------------------------------------------------christians--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


First of all before we give some points of discussion about christianity - we always seem to forget
that our aim is not to prove their religion is false, rather it is to prove Islam is right.
we shouldnt criticise them and make them go on the defensive as then our objective of inviting them to
Islam is not going to be acheived however well we put it after that attack on their beliefs. If
it does infact crop up then obviously we discuss it, but always remember to give the islamic viewpoint
,which without exception makes more sense, so as to keep telling them about Islam.

We should also tell them about the similarities between us eg. "we have to love Jesus mor than we love
our own parents" or "we have to believe in the bible to be muslim"(obviously the uncorrupted initial version) or
"islam also teaches peace and forgiveness", or "we also pray to God" etc etc

What do they believe:

1)the majority believe in the trinity (their way of explaining God): Father, Son, Holy Ghost.
They believe that God is 3 parts in 1.
2)They believe Jesus was man and God.
3)They believe the Bible to be the word of God.
4)They believe Jesus died for the forgiveness of our sins
5)they believe he was resurrected after 3 days.

(--a good reference for christianity is www.answering-christianity.com--)


-Point 1
--------
the trinity doesnt make sense. its not correct logically. when talking this analogy is quite good:
"You say Jesus, Father and holy spirit is God?" "ok so Jesus is one pencil, Father is another and Holy
spirit is another. that is 3 pencils...how can 3 pencils = 1 pencil?"
now they will generally say "no they are all at once so they are one"
say:so 1/3=0.333 - so jesus is only a third God? - isnt that limiting God and saying theres something
he cant do? - isnt that defeating the purpose of God? -
also the trinity isnt mentioned ONCE in the entire bible!, jesus (as) never claims to be god! infact
jesus comes across as a very monothiestic and humble messenger of God in the Bible -
how then can christians say he is god if he never even claims it - its like you saying im going to kiss everyone
who walks past me, after you hear me clearly say that i am gonna kick anyone that walks past me!

now theres a new argument - "we cannot comprehend god" - they say- therefore it doesnt matter if we cant make sense of the trinity...
okay if that is the case:
1) why does the torah stick to a monotheistic god? (and the majority of the NT too)- if they believe in the torah (OT)...
then they must realise that they have totally changed the whole nature of god form what the bible states.
why does god change his entire way of revealing himself and reveal 2/3 more of himself in the NT?
2) life is a test - god wants us to believe in him - why would he reveal an illogical and unbelievable religion then?
then using this argument we could argue anything about god - like say a relgion says that a female goddess mated
with a male god and produced discworld which morphed into the earth etc etc - all this makes sense when we say we cannot comprehend god!


and then offer them the islamic answer - god is one and only one and jesus is not god and only a messenger of god.
-point 2
--------
Jesus was man and God? - so he somehow combined his weakness of man with the infinite power of God?
So when jesus died on the cross...who died...God? - was the world without God for 3 days?
So when Jesus says he doesnt know when the day of Judgement is...is he not God...isnt he all knowing.
when he prays...is he praying to himself...why is he asking himself for forgiveness or help if he is
god himself...is he accepting the superiority of the father over himself? in which case he isnt all-
powerful!
why does he say "he is my God and your God" - err..isnt he God?

perhaps the biggest point here is this: If jesus was God - and the Bible is the book of God - Why in
the world doesnt it say even once in the Bible - clearly that Jesus was God?? thats like claiming
that I am giving away money...without me ever saying so...and then people accepting the words of other
people...

Jesus is called the Son of God in the Bible - but then again...so is Adam and so is David among
others...this was an expression in those days meaning to be a Prophet or someone close to God.

Jesus says in the bible he has not come to change the law (jewish beliefs) rather to reliven them...isnt saying
that Jesus (as) is God totally against the monotheism Judaism teaching?


- Point 3
----------
www.video.google.com - search for "who wrote the bible" for a useful resource - and of course
answering-christianity.com... ;)

some points...Bible scholars accept that the writers of the 4 gospels were all anonymous, they have
ascribed them to Mathew, Mark, Luke and John, but no-one knows who wrote them.
The Bible was compiled a full 150-300 years after jesus! it was compiled by people who had their own sets of beliefs
and they only chose gospels most suited to those specific beliefs...

incidentally 27 gospels were left out of the final Bible! among which are the gospel of Barnabas, peter, thomas and mary
magdelene! these people form main characters in the gospels... and their writings are declared as heretical!
(incidentally the gospel of barnabas is supposed to contain prophecies by name of Muhammed (saw) - search it online..)
muhammad in the Bible - \deut, xviii, 15 /john, xiv, 16, also check out shaykh Deedats works - very useful (search online)

The Bible has clear contradictions such as the genealogy of Jesus in Mathew 1:1 and Luke ...
(for more...refer to answering-christianity.com)

The Bible also has sections where it says "early manuscripts dont mention this bit"...why is it included then? surely
the manuscripts closest to the time were most accurate, and anyway why were there differences between the two texts...
surely as "Gods word" it couldnt be edited by any freestyle scribe? ( interesting use of freestyle...;) )
the gospel writers were not eye-witnesses...rather they wrote about events from hearsay of others.

also the bible is scientifically incorrect - in the creation story - it clearly says:
1) that the night and day were there before the sun and the moon!
2) that the plants came before the sun!
3) no evolution whatsoever in 7 days
4) they may argue that 7 periods of time argument - well how do plants survive millions of years before the sun? and anyway
when god rests on the 7th day...is there no evolution then?
now they may try to neatly sidestep this argument by saying that the creation story is actually just figurative before science
told us the truth...well tell them...u say the bible is from god...that god knows all...its for guidance...why then would god LIE
to us in his holy book? - also this means the bible contradicts clear fact - sumthing we can prove for sumthing in contradiction to...
it...we obviously believe the proveable side! science! quran too! dawah territory!


now tell them about there only being one version of the quran - and how its exactly the same as the first quran-and then
discuss the quran and bring in islam ( dawah teritory)

-point 4
--------
jesus died for the forgiveness of our sins, to get rid of original sin...and went to hell for 3 days.
okay well first of all we ask the question...why didnt Jesus "supposedly God" not just forgive the sins - or why did the
"loving father" not just forgive the sins?
2nd - its highly unfair that one man suffers for everyone...thats like hanging me for Ian huntleys murders! totally
unfair! And God is most just...wheres the justice...and anyway isnt this world supposed to be a test? wheres the test
now if we aint gonna be punished whatever happens?
next we can recyle the point that if jesus is god...and god dies on the cross...who the hell (pardon the pun) is running
the world?
next if jesus went to hell for 3 days...why dont the Gospels mention it?...and anyway this is "God" we are talking
about...God doesnt need to get punished...thats just plain stupid... god creates us to test us...he makes everyone pass
the test...and then he punishes himself for out sins? whaaat!


- point 5
---------
jesus was resurrected...but was he? the early gospels dont mention this.
also when jesus "is resurrected" he is seen my Mary Magdelene ( a close companion) but she doesnt recognise him! this is
her religious leader who shes been taught by...and she doesnt recognise him..how can that be...the same for the
disciples...they dont recognise him either! how can that possibly be?
then theres the conundrum that is the sign of Jonah - (http://www.jamaat.net/jonah/signofjonah.html) - basically jesus
says he will give:ND THERE SHALL NO SIGN (no miracle) BE GIVEN TO IT, BUT THE SIGN (miracle) OF THE PROPHET JONAS: FOR
AS JONAS WAS THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS IN THE WHALE'S BELLY - now jonas was alive in the belly of the whale - so jesus
was alive in the belly of the earth too...also the three days and three night totally doesnt add up as if jesus was buried
on friday evening and the tomb was empty by the sunday morning- then we are looking at only 1 day and 2 nights!

general tips:
always focus on the trinity more - as that is easiest to lead to islam and tawheed (one-ness of Allah)
dont waste too much time on die-hard christians as they are just not interested in what you have to say...
its hard to not get in a heated debate sumtimes but always try to keep the temperature at under 14 degrees celsius :)



---------------------------------------------------------------Atheists---------------------------------------------------------------------

They are basically people who don't believe that God exists.

- Point 1 - BIG BANG THEORY
---------------------------
This is something the atheist use to explain how we came into being. The theory of big bang tells us that there were some "matter"
at the beginning which had immense temperature and density. And there was like a supernova which caused the space to expand... and the
earth was formed.

QURAN's VIEW ON THIS: Then He Istawa (rose over) towards the heaven when it was SMOKE, and said to it and to the earth: "Come both
of you willingly or unwillingly." They both said: "We come, willingly." (41:11).

"Do not the unbelievers see that the Heavens and the earth were joined together, then We split them apart." (21:30)

This shows that Quran completely agrees with the theory of big bang. At this point during your conversation, you could say, "How could
someone know about this 1400 years ago?"

Also, where did this matter for big bang come from?

- Point 2 - BIG BANG THEORY EXTENDED...
---------------------------------------
It is also known that the space is constantly expanding... The Quran agrees with it and this is what it says:

"And the firmament, We constructed with power and skill and verily We are expanding it." (51:47)
**firemanent means "the vault of heaven; sky"
Who could have known that 1400 years ago? Only Allah.


- Point 3 - Theory of Evolution
-----------------------------------
Theory of evolution states how we all came from water. Quran also agrees with it.

"Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were joined together as one united piece,
then We parted them? And We have made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?" (21:30)

Evolution then goes on to claim how we evolved from one species to another... this is where the problem arises... we as muslims don't agree
with this as we know and are told that Prophet Adam was created on his image (i.e. he didnt go through stages of being infant etc).
Furthermore, if you think about it, life started from water... so lets say fishes were the first animals. How would a fish develop lungs? Why would it need
to? Its gills are specialised to take in oxygen from water. It is inefficient to breathe in water and extract oxygen from it, as water is dense and so lots
of energy will be wasted to carry this out.
I asked this question to someone and he said what if the fish gets washed to the shores and lays eggs. Clearly there are some things wrong with this
suggestion. Firstly, the fish would die if it leaves the water since fishes dont "breathe" in air but get their oxygen from water. Secondly, say for argument's
sake, the fish layed eggs as soon as it came to the shore and then died. The eggs won't hatch into animals with lungs because they contain genes for forming
gills, so they would immediately die.

We believe partly in evolution, things like "adapting" to environment. So, for example if I go live at high altitude, my body will start to produce more red
blood cells to carry more oxygen. This is because there is less oxygen in the environment at high altitude. The body "adapts" to the environment. As you can
see this idea is completely logic and makes sense.



- Other General Points - including Lion analogy
-----------------------------------------------

athiests think they are the most logical ppl on earth (they love science)as they think its irrational to believe in god or to give god as a
reason for our creation etc. -
firstly congratulate them on their independent thinking, and their quest for believing in proven things then ask them why they dont believe in
god?

okay give them this higly logical analogy: you have a room, someone says there is a lion in it...they offer you a gun...do u or do u not take it?
lets break the answers down:
u take the gun - no lion - ur safe
u take the gun - lion attacks in a bloody rage and jumps for your throat...u shoot it...ur safe
u dont take the gun - no lion - ur safe
u dont take the gun -lion attacks in a bloody rage and jumps for your throat...the lion gets your throat, and eats you. - emphatically not safe!

so the obvious choice is to take the gun (islam) and protect yourself from the lion ( punishment)

also always use science with atheists as they love it - use the obove points for help.

negative cohesion ( using a third party you both oppose to get a relationship together) eg the idea of the trinity...they will see you dont like
irrational concepts.

also very useful is to spell out for them what they believe in, namely: that they have seen everything in the universe, at all times, outside the
universe, and all this at the same time...and therefore have concluded there is no god! - they havent - so they cant say there is absolutely no
chance of there being a god.


these convos should be quite easy to link back to tawheed ( the oneness of God).





---------------------------------------------------------------Agnostics------------------------------------------------------------------------


these aint sure whether there is a god or not....use the atheist section to convince them of a god...then...


1)give them scientific facts in quran as a "wow" factor (so to speak),
2)and then ask them open questions and basically find out their purpose in life
3)where they think we came from,
4)where we are going, etc


obviously always giving islamic viewpoint too...






coming soon!
InshAllah

Deists: think there is a god...but dont follow a religion...
?Hindus?:
?Jews?: (OT reliability maybe)
spiritual religions eg Budhism etc:
ppl not interested:


plz let us know if anything we said is wrong - we are absolutely open to justified criticism-and anything that we said is wrong is from us and anything we said right is from Allah.
and above all -GET INVOLVED!!